Comments on: That Was The BRM That Was http://osrin.net/2008/03/that-was-the-brm-that-was/ Notes from fourty one degrees south... Thu, 01 Jul 2010 05:45:51 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Gray Matter http://osrin.net/2008/03/that-was-the-brm-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-721 Gray Matter Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:41:40 +0000 http://osrin.net/2008/03/01/that-was-the-brm-that-was/#comment-721 <strong>What a difference a week makes...</strong> While folks were busy at the BRM, I was becoming a new father. My daughter was born on February 29 th... What a difference a week makes…

While folks were busy at the BRM, I was becoming a new father. My daughter was born on February 29 th…

]]> By: Gerhard´s Marktbeobachtungen http://osrin.net/2008/03/that-was-the-brm-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-712 Gerhard´s Marktbeobachtungen Mon, 03 Mar 2008 06:26:52 +0000 http://osrin.net/2008/03/01/that-was-the-brm-that-was/#comment-712 <strong>Open XML auf dem Weg zum ISO Standard: Das BRM (Ballot Resolution Meeting)...</strong> Letzte Woche war BRM. In Genf. "Ja und?" wird sich jetzt so mancher denken. Das heißt was genau? Und... Open XML auf dem Weg zum ISO Standard: Das BRM (Ballot Resolution Meeting)…

Letzte Woche war BRM. In Genf. “Ja und?” wird sich jetzt so mancher denken. Das heißt was genau? Und…

]]> By: oliver http://osrin.net/2008/03/that-was-the-brm-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-709 oliver Mon, 03 Mar 2008 04:54:44 +0000 http://osrin.net/2008/03/01/that-was-the-brm-that-was/#comment-709 Hi Dave, Actually the specification currently running through the FastTrack process is "ISO/IEC DIS29500 (Office Open XML)". As for competing standards, as an OSS advocate you surprise me a little with your comment. While it has somehow become a mantra when it comes to promoting ODF, competing standards are pretty much the bedrock of the OSS and internet worlds that we know today. If "first to standardize" was the right way for us behave in this industry we would probably have no internet, and we would be exchanging email in a much more complex manner than we do today. TCP/IP and SMTP were both standards that competed for the position that they have today, they competed for a little while with the OSI (TP0/TP4) stack and x400 and thankfully won out in the end. If you want to get really esoteric then I seem to remember that the Windows 3.1 API was standardized in the mid 90s, I think we can both agree that it is a good thing that we didn't all stop there. The POSIX API was standardized through ISO, as was the Linux API which is pretty similar in many ways. I can't see a situation where choice is anything other than a good thing, different choices generally do different things, and where they do identical things then it is more relevant for the market to decide which one stays and which one doesn't. Hi Dave, Actually the specification currently running through the FastTrack process is “ISO/IEC DIS29500 (Office Open XML)”.

As for competing standards, as an OSS advocate you surprise me a little with your comment. While it has somehow become a mantra when it comes to promoting ODF, competing standards are pretty much the bedrock of the OSS and internet worlds that we know today.

If “first to standardize” was the right way for us behave in this industry we would probably have no internet, and we would be exchanging email in a much more complex manner than we do today.

TCP/IP and SMTP were both standards that competed for the position that they have today, they competed for a little while with the OSI (TP0/TP4) stack and x400 and thankfully won out in the end.

If you want to get really esoteric then I seem to remember that the Windows 3.1 API was standardized in the mid 90s, I think we can both agree that it is a good thing that we didn’t all stop there. The POSIX API was standardized through ISO, as was the Linux API which is pretty similar in many ways.

I can’t see a situation where choice is anything other than a good thing, different choices generally do different things, and where they do identical things then it is more relevant for the market to decide which one stays and which one doesn’t.

]]> By: Dave Lane http://osrin.net/2008/03/that-was-the-brm-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-706 Dave Lane Mon, 03 Mar 2008 02:41:13 +0000 http://osrin.net/2008/03/01/that-was-the-brm-that-was/#comment-706 Sorry Oliver, I have to disagree. Competing *implementations* of the same standard are good. Multiple competing standards that do more or less the same thing are just plain stupid - bad for industry (time wasted on supporting multiple formats when one would suffice) and worse for users (added cost, complexity, persistent incompatibility). MS's attempts to push MSOOXML through ISO is just a disingenuous attempt to retain control of its format while simultaneously being able to sell to governments and organisations who are increasingly requiring software to implement *open* standards. Oh, and Oliver, call it by it's name: MS OOXML. It's not "OpenXML" [sic]. I sincerely hope the NBs are wise enough to say no to MSOOXML. Dave Sorry Oliver, I have to disagree. Competing *implementations* of the same standard are good. Multiple competing standards that do more or less the same thing are just plain stupid – bad for industry (time wasted on supporting multiple formats when one would suffice) and worse for users (added cost, complexity, persistent incompatibility).

MS’s attempts to push MSOOXML through ISO is just a disingenuous attempt to retain control of its format while simultaneously being able to sell to governments and organisations who are increasingly requiring software to implement *open* standards.

Oh, and Oliver, call it by it’s name: MS OOXML. It’s not “OpenXML” [sic].

I sincerely hope the NBs are wise enough to say no to MSOOXML.

Dave

]]> By: BRM - The aftermaths « Fredrik E. Nilsens Blogg http://osrin.net/2008/03/that-was-the-brm-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-671 BRM - The aftermaths « Fredrik E. Nilsens Blogg Sat, 01 Mar 2008 14:49:18 +0000 http://osrin.net/2008/03/01/that-was-the-brm-that-was/#comment-671 [...] That Was The BRM That Was [...] [...] That Was The BRM That Was [...]

]]> By: oliver http://osrin.net/2008/03/that-was-the-brm-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-669 oliver Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:42:32 +0000 http://osrin.net/2008/03/01/that-was-the-brm-that-was/#comment-669 Totally agree... competition in standards is a very good thing for the industry as a whole. OpenXML and ODF will compete side by side, they won't be the last document formats that we know in our lifetimes either. The industry innovates, new technology comes along and we all work out how to use it. Totally agree… competition in standards is a very good thing for the industry as a whole.

OpenXML and ODF will compete side by side, they won’t be the last document formats that we know in our lifetimes either. The industry innovates, new technology comes along and we all work out how to use it.

]]> By: Anselmo Dimayuga http://osrin.net/2008/03/that-was-the-brm-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-668 Anselmo Dimayuga Sat, 01 Mar 2008 11:47:48 +0000 http://osrin.net/2008/03/01/that-was-the-brm-that-was/#comment-668 Im a programmer,a simpleton but Please please why is this issue seem to be very complicated? why does other party scared of another standard? If you have another standard will it EAT AWAY your FREE WILL? will having one other standard make esisting standard an 'UN-STANDARD'? This issue is very simple and like confucious say "life is very simple but we insist on making it complicated.." Why not let us choose what we want? DO you think we are foolish and un-educated? Even if we maybe.. we want to choose our own. ODF Dont be scared if we like you we will choose to use you.. if we like ooxml we will use it too.. let the process happen and let people think for themselves.. you make us feel stupid for your own good.. let us be Im a programmer,a simpleton but Please please why is this issue seem to be very complicated? why does other party scared of another standard? If you have another standard will it EAT AWAY your FREE WILL? will having one other standard make esisting standard an ‘UN-STANDARD’? This issue is very simple and like confucious say “life is very simple but we insist on making it complicated..” Why not let us choose what we want? DO you think we are foolish and un-educated? Even if we maybe.. we want to choose our own. ODF Dont be scared if we like you we will choose to use you.. if we like ooxml we will use it too.. let the process happen and let people think for themselves.. you make us feel stupid for your own good.. let us be

]]> By: Karsten Spengler http://osrin.net/2008/03/that-was-the-brm-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-666 Karsten Spengler Sat, 01 Mar 2008 09:58:42 +0000 http://osrin.net/2008/03/01/that-was-the-brm-that-was/#comment-666 "Updegrove’s post is not totally unprecedented. On a couple of occasions last summer he rushed to explain that the National Body in the United States had voted for a disapprove for DIS29500 as the committee went through a preliminary voting process. That was right before the United States approved the draft standard for DIS29500, a fact that I can’t find documented on his blog." Which was factually right before Microsoft started high-level interventions in the US. Let's see what Microsoft will do to achieve the same among ISO members. Nobody doubts that they can. It is really depressing to see that the company doesn't stop when its over. “Updegrove’s post is not totally unprecedented. On a couple of occasions last summer he rushed to explain that the National Body in the United States had voted for a disapprove for DIS29500 as the committee went through a preliminary voting process. That was right before the United States approved the draft standard for DIS29500, a fact that I can’t find documented on his blog.”

Which was factually right before Microsoft started high-level interventions in the US.

Let’s see what Microsoft will do to achieve the same among ISO members. Nobody doubts that they can. It is really depressing to see that the company doesn’t stop when its over.

]]> By: oliver http://osrin.net/2008/03/that-was-the-brm-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-663 oliver Sat, 01 Mar 2008 07:50:48 +0000 http://osrin.net/2008/03/01/that-was-the-brm-that-was/#comment-663 @Andy, As I understand it Andy, the "process" that you question - along with the US head of delegation in CIO Magazine this morning - is the very same process that the room of international delegates decided was the right one earlier in the week. As I say, I suspect the truth will out over the coming few days. @Andy, As I understand it Andy, the “process” that you question – along with the US head of delegation in CIO Magazine this morning – is the very same process that the room of international delegates decided was the right one earlier in the week.

As I say, I suspect the truth will out over the coming few days.

]]> By: guillermo http://osrin.net/2008/03/that-was-the-brm-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-659 guillermo Sat, 01 Mar 2008 01:23:17 +0000 http://osrin.net/2008/03/01/that-was-the-brm-that-was/#comment-659 "For now I guess we will have to wait for the details of the final outcome, everybody I have spoken to tells me it was a very positive meeting and a resounding success." who are they? jason matusow and brian? or the delegations members paid by Microsoft? “For now I guess we will have to wait for the details of the final outcome, everybody I have spoken to tells me it was a very positive meeting and a resounding success.”

who are they? jason matusow and brian? or the delegations members paid by Microsoft?

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